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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:58 pm 
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On the whole, I don't think he's good enough.

His first half performance contradicted that point of view.

Unfortunately, his second half performance reinforced that point of view.

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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:02 pm 
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Taking Wotton out of the picture, what's the average age across our midfield?

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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:16 pm 
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John Petrie wrote:
When we kept the ball on the deck he dominated the midfield. When someone in front of him moved he tended to find them. When the forwards managed to keep the ball in the final third he was often backing up attacks.

He was unable to find any killer balls today because there was absolutely no movement in front of him. He was unable to dominate the second half because their manager reacted to his influence in the first half and changed things, our response was aimless punts.

If we play the ball on the deck and put someone up top who makes a dangerous run in behind the defence he will create. If we play people in front of him that show for the ball and find space then he will find them. If neither of the above happen then he will try and keep the ball.

Instead what we see is criticism for keeping the ball instead of an aimless lump to a forward unwilling to run away from their marker.

For years we have had a problem with our attacking movement and it is still a major problem for us. Players like Hourihane will find space and will find players with their passing but if they are to set up goals then they need decent movement in front of them. It is not their fault if it is not their and I'd rather they kept the ball than hoofing it aimlessly to a striker stood next to their marker or accelerating as fast as possible to put as many defenders between them and the midfield as possible.


This. Top post and absolutely spot on.

I find criticism of him today astonishing.


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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:18 pm 
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monkeywrench wrote:
John Petrie wrote:
When we kept the ball on the deck he dominated the midfield. When someone in front of him moved he tended to find them. When the forwards managed to keep the ball in the final third he was often backing up attacks.

He was unable to find any killer balls today because there was absolutely no movement in front of him. He was unable to dominate the second half because their manager reacted to his influence in the first half and changed things, our response was aimless punts.

If we play the ball on the deck and put someone up top who makes a dangerous run in behind the defence he will create. If we play people in front of him that show for the ball and find space then he will find them. If neither of the above happen then he will try and keep the ball.

Instead what we see is criticism for keeping the ball instead of an aimless lump to a forward unwilling to run away from their marker.

For years we have had a problem with our attacking movement and it is still a major problem for us. Players like Hourihane will find space and will find players with their passing but if they are to set up goals then they need decent movement in front of them. It is not their fault if it is not their and I'd rather they kept the ball than hoofing it aimlessly to a striker stood next to their marker or accelerating as fast as possible to put as many defenders between them and the midfield as possible.


This. Top post and absolutely spot on.

I find criticism of him today astonishing.


Makes sense and backs up my own opinion that the midfield isn't the big problem.

It's the upfront department that are struggling to provide a purpose for getting the ball forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:23 pm 
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Tugboat wrote:
Taking Wotton out of the picture, what's the average age across our midfield?

22/23.

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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:27 pm 
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monkeywrench wrote:
John Petrie wrote:
When we kept the ball on the deck he dominated the midfield. When someone in front of him moved he tended to find them. When the forwards managed to keep the ball in the final third he was often backing up attacks.

He was unable to find any killer balls today because there was absolutely no movement in front of him. He was unable to dominate the second half because their manager reacted to his influence in the first half and changed things, our response was aimless punts.

If we play the ball on the deck and put someone up top who makes a dangerous run in behind the defence he will create. If we play people in front of him that show for the ball and find space then he will find them. If neither of the above happen then he will try and keep the ball.

Instead what we see is criticism for keeping the ball instead of an aimless lump to a forward unwilling to run away from their marker.

For years we have had a problem with our attacking movement and it is still a major problem for us. Players like Hourihane will find space and will find players with their passing but if they are to set up goals then they need decent movement in front of them. It is not their fault if it is not their and I'd rather they kept the ball than hoofing it aimlessly to a striker stood next to their marker or accelerating as fast as possible to put as many defenders between them and the midfield as possible.


This. Top post and absolutely spot on.

I find criticism of him today astonishing.

Me too on the whole. Fans were moaning to get it forward but when players did hoof it forward it just went back to our half and/or there was no-one running in front of him. Football's as much about what you do off the ball as what you do on it. Our other players didn't help him out enough.

The one thing he did do poorly was, as has been said, be too slow in his thought and tended to pick the wrong pass , especially in counter attacks. For all the reasons John said though, I don't think he deserves as much stick as he is getting.

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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:09 pm 
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The fact remains that if you only play one up front, particularly a midget in the land of the giants, then midfielders have to get forward to support him and that includes Hourihane; simples.

He is not the gifted play-maker implied by some on here, he is someone who all too often takes the easy option by passing backwards to a defender who then hoofs it up for Feeney to lose possession anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:40 pm 
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GreenSam wrote:
monkeywrench wrote:
John Petrie wrote:
When we kept the ball on the deck he dominated the midfield. When someone in front of him moved he tended to find them. When the forwards managed to keep the ball in the final third he was often backing up attacks.

He was unable to find any killer balls today because there was absolutely no movement in front of him. He was unable to dominate the second half because their manager reacted to his influence in the first half and changed things, our response was aimless punts.

If we play the ball on the deck and put someone up top who makes a dangerous run in behind the defence he will create. If we play people in front of him that show for the ball and find space then he will find them. If neither of the above happen then he will try and keep the ball.

Instead what we see is criticism for keeping the ball instead of an aimless lump to a forward unwilling to run away from their marker.

For years we have had a problem with our attacking movement and it is still a major problem for us. Players like Hourihane will find space and will find players with their passing but if they are to set up goals then they need decent movement in front of them. It is not their fault if it is not their and I'd rather they kept the ball than hoofing it aimlessly to a striker stood next to their marker or accelerating as fast as possible to put as many defenders between them and the midfield as possible.


This. Top post and absolutely spot on.

I find criticism of him today astonishing.

Me too on the whole. Fans were moaning to get it forward but when players did hoof it forward it just went back to our half and/or there was no-one running in front of him. Football's as much about what you do off the ball as what you do on it. Our other players didn't help him out enough.

The one thing he did do poorly was, as has been said, be too slow in his thought and tended to pick the wrong pass , especially in counter attacks. For all the reasons John said though, I don't think he deserves as much stick as he is getting.


Completely disagree Sam, he had little or no options going forward. When he did have an option he used it effectively. He was the best player in green, by a mile.

It was the lack of running off the ball which was the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:58 pm 
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monkeywrench wrote:
GreenSam wrote:
monkeywrench wrote:
John Petrie wrote:
When we kept the ball on the deck he dominated the midfield. When someone in front of him moved he tended to find them. When the forwards managed to keep the ball in the final third he was often backing up attacks.

He was unable to find any killer balls today because there was absolutely no movement in front of him. He was unable to dominate the second half because their manager reacted to his influence in the first half and changed things, our response was aimless punts.

If we play the ball on the deck and put someone up top who makes a dangerous run in behind the defence he will create. If we play people in front of him that show for the ball and find space then he will find them. If neither of the above happen then he will try and keep the ball.

Instead what we see is criticism for keeping the ball instead of an aimless lump to a forward unwilling to run away from their marker.

For years we have had a problem with our attacking movement and it is still a major problem for us. Players like Hourihane will find space and will find players with their passing but if they are to set up goals then they need decent movement in front of them. It is not their fault if it is not their and I'd rather they kept the ball than hoofing it aimlessly to a striker stood next to their marker or accelerating as fast as possible to put as many defenders between them and the midfield as possible.


This. Top post and absolutely spot on.

I find criticism of him today astonishing.

Me too on the whole. Fans were moaning to get it forward but when players did hoof it forward it just went back to our half and/or there was no-one running in front of him. Football's as much about what you do off the ball as what you do on it. Our other players didn't help him out enough.

The one thing he did do poorly was, as has been said, be too slow in his thought and tended to pick the wrong pass , especially in counter attacks. For all the reasons John said though, I don't think he deserves as much stick as he is getting.


Completely disagree Sam, he had little or no options going forward. When he did have an option he used it effectively. He was the best player in green, by a mile.

It was the lack of running off the ball which was the problem.

I think you're right to an extent but I wouldn't say he was entirely blameless. I feel at times he did have better options around him which he didn't use. There was one counter attack in the second half that really stickss in my mind, was going at a great tempo and he dallied too long when he had (I think Bhasera) running forward to the left of him.

By and large I think he was good, and was mostly let down by lack of options in front of him. That's why he plays so many short passes. Lack of options in front of him.

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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:59 pm 
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Why start a new thread? Just ask the mods to rehash the old Walton threads and just change the name!


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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:47 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:21 am
He's a good player. Although his influence on the game waned when we decided to start humping long balls forward towards Feeney, instead of persevering with our passing game he was one of our few plus points today.


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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:14 am 
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I thought he looked alright, I'm surprised by the critism of Hourihane but I suppose we all see things differently. As JP said he looked a lot better when we played the ball on the deck it was only when we returned to hoof ball that he began to struggle then again he is never really going to make a difference with the ball sailing over his head all game is he?

The one player I would say deserves his own thread is Young, I personally don't rate him in the slightest. He lacks the strength to make any impact from the middle, he gets shrugged off the ball too easily by his opponent which means he has little time on the ball to do anything useful and if I'm honest even if he does have some time on the ball, his passing isn't great anyway it's frustrating watching a player lose the ball consistently and sadly Young does exactly that. I know he's young and still developing as a player but he has to be told to get on the weights a bit just to give himself a chance against even the smallest of L2 players, maybe with a bit more time to make his plays might help, I'm no expert of course but something needs to improve of Young is ever going to make it IMO...

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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:51 am 

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John Petrie wrote:
When we kept the ball on the deck he dominated the midfield. When someone in front of him moved he tended to find them. When the forwards managed to keep the ball in the final third he was often backing up attacks.

He was unable to find any killer balls today because there was absolutely no movement in front of him. He was unable to dominate the second half because their manager reacted to his influence in the first half and changed things, our response was aimless punts.

If we play the ball on the deck and put someone up top who makes a dangerous run in behind the defence he will create. If we play people in front of him that show for the ball and find space then he will find them. If neither of the above happen then he will try and keep the ball.

What we see is criticism for keeping the ball instead of an aimless lump to a forward unwilling to run away from their marker.

For years we have had a problem with our attacking movement and it is still a major problem for us. Players like Hourihane will find space and will find players with their passing but if they are to set up goals then they need decent movement in front of them. It is not their fault if it is not there and I'd rather they kept the ball than hoofing it aimlessly to a striker stood next to their marker or accelerating as fast as possible to put as many defenders between them and the midfield as possible.


Agree with this

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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:53 am 

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Ollieargyle9 wrote:
I thought he looked alright, I'm surprised by the critism of Hourihane but I suppose we all see things differently. As JP said he looked a lot better when we played the ball on the deck it was only when we returned to hoof ball that he began to struggle then again he is never really going to make a difference with the ball sailing over his head all game is he?

The one player I would say deserves his own thread is Young, I personally don't rate him in the slightest. He lacks the strength to make any impact from the middle, he gets shrugged off the ball too easily by his opponent which means he has little time on the ball to do anything useful and if I'm honest even if he does have some time on the ball, his passing isn't great anyway it's frustrating watching a player lose the ball consistently and sadly Young does exactly that. I know he's young and still developing as a player but he has to be told to get on the weights a bit just to give himself a chance against even the smallest of L2 players, maybe with a bit more time to make his plays might help, I'm no expert of course but something needs to improve of Young is ever going to make it IMO...

Young was poor today, I think he's better used in a wide role.

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 Post subject: Re: Hourihane
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:00 am 
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demportdave wrote:
The fact remains that if you only play one up front, particularly a midget in the land of the giants, then midfielders have to get forward to support him and that includes Hourihane; simples.

He is not the gifted play-maker implied by some on here, he is someone who all too often takes the easy option by passing backwards to a defender who then hoofs it up for Feeney to lose possession anyway.


Harsh, When Wotton does exactly the same - pass back or lose the ball he is described as a defensive player, when hourihane does it he is described as a negative player.


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