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 Post subject: Re: German court: Circumcision = assault
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:15 am 
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So they do it because they have always done it but why did they start doing it in the first instance and does that reason still apply today?

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 Post subject: Re: German court: Circumcision = assault
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:43 am 
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Because God told them to (if you believe what is said in the Old Testament - or the part which is their Torah), although the reality is that it is a practise pre-dates back to Ancient Egyptian times to act as some passage from boyhood to manhood.

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 Post subject: Re: German court: Circumcision = assault
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:50 am 
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There must be, or at least believed to be, some practical justification for circumcision. No matter what mumbo jumbo the mystics apply there is usually a good, solid, practical reason behind stuff but in this instance I can't see what it might be..

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 Post subject: Re: German court: Circumcision = assault
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Quinny is right, it does go back to the Egyptians and maybe even further. I've heard said that it was done for hygiene reasons also, maybe something to do with transmitted disease, hot climate and lack of available water.


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 Post subject: Re: German court: Circumcision = assault
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:02 pm 
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From Wiki:

Quote:
The origination of male circumcision is not known with certainty. It has been variously proposed that it began as a religious sacrifice, as a rite of passage marking a boy's entrance into adulthood, as a form of sympathetic magic to ensure virility or fertility, as a means of enhancing sexual pleasure, as an aid to hygiene where regular bathing was impractical, as a means of marking those of higher social status, as a means of humiliating enemies and slaves by symbolic castration, as a means of differentiating a circumcising group from their non-circumcising neighbors, as a means of discouraging masturbation or other socially proscribed sexual behaviors, as a means of removing "excess" pleasure, as a means of increasing a man's attractiveness to women, as a demonstration of one's ability to endure pain, or as a male counterpart to menstruation or the breaking of the hymen, or to copy the rare natural occurrence of a missing foreskin of an important leader, and as a display of disgust of the smegma produced by the foreskin. It has been suggested that the custom of circumcision gave advantages to tribes that practiced it and thus led to its spread. Darby describes these theories as "conflicting", and states that "the only point of agreement among proponents of the various theories is that promoting good health had nothing to do with it." Immerman et al. suggest that circumcision causes lowered sexual arousal of pubescent males, and hypothesize that this was a competitive advantage to tribes practising circumcision, leading to its spread. Wilson suggests that circumcision reduces insemination efficiency, reducing a man's capacity for extra-pair fertilizations by impairing sperm competition. Thus, men who display this signal of sexual obedience, may gain social benefits, if married men are selected to offer social trust and investment preferentially to peers who are less threatening to their paternity. It is possible that circumcision arose independently in different cultures for different reasons.


So there you go. We don't really know, but it's unlikely to have been for hygiene reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: German court: Circumcision = assault
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:38 pm 
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Quote:

So there you go. We don't really know, but it's unlikely to have been for hygiene reasons.


Well, your probably right, but like with many controversial subjects there are many opinions.

In a study of US newborns in 1983, mothers cited hygiene as the most important determinant of choosing to circumcise their sons, and in Ghana, male circumcision is seen as cleansing the boy after birth. Improved hygiene was also cited by 23% of 110 boys circumcised in the Philippines and in South Korea, the principal reasons given for circumcision were ‘to improve penile hygiene’ (71% and 78% respectively) and to prevent conditions such as penile cancer, sexually transmitted diseases and HIV. In Nyanza Province, Kenya, 96% of uncircumcised men and 97% of women irrespective of their preference for male circumcision stated their opinion that it was easier for circumcised men to maintain cleanliness.

http://www.unaids.org/en/resources/pres ... 0226mcpt1/


Clearly, perception wise, hygiene does appear to be a factor today, though it is uncertain whether this has always been so. As regards a Jewish understanding, it's primarily seen as a symbolic act of communal solidarity and identity.

http://www.thejewishweek.com/jewish_lif ... rcumcision

All that said, I feel sure that if not for health reasons then some underlying historical significance has been lost to us


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